Women do love games. The market share before the toy stores made it a choice of who to cater to were about even. Women made some of the best games early on, and the female gamer demographic never went away, it just got shoved to the side for fanservice.
There are plenty of games for women, and im not saying this dismissively. It depends what these women like. They just aren’t hardcore soulslikes. Most women arent into that. They prefer casual or social games they can fit onto their existing life, like candy crush or farmville.
I’m a woman gamer, most of my ladyfriends are gamers. I definitely play a different subset of games than most of them, but there’s no real lack…
We even have big franchise games that are aimed toward women like horizon. I fucking loved those games, and we need more like that! They made me better at shooters in general, a genre I have never been good at or spent time with due in part to how male-focused it was.
They just aren’t hardcore soulslikes. Most women arent into that. They prefer casual or social games they can fit onto their existing life, like candy crush or farmville.
I think this is a symptom of how women are ostracised/marketed to in the gaming sphere rather than an actual predisposition. The split of women and men (and everyone in between) in my life who enjoy more action oriented games, vs cozy games, vs strategy games, vs etc, is pretty much even, but the women (and non women who were Arab) had a harder time getting to the point where they felt they were “allowed” to try the games that are typically heavily marketed toward men, and typically associated with men.
I can speak to it from the opposite side as well, having grown up assigned male, I spent a great deal of time feeling like I wasn’t allowed to play, or should feel shame for enjoying, cozy games, farming games, games with a more “typically feminine” aesthetic. And that shame came from other gamers, and from the wider conversation around games by media and marketing. But I do like cozy games and farming games! (And I’m a woman, but that discovery came later xP)
What I can agree with, which I think is slightly buried in the subtext of your comment, is that it’s far more socially accepted for a man to base his life around games. For (some) women who enjoy soulslikes, they might play for shorter times, or less frequently, as lapsing on other facets of life or responsibilities is more heavily frowned upon (by wider society) in women. But (many) men can happily spend 3, 4, 5, 8 hours a day playing video games without all that much judgement (which is fine! I don’t think people should be judged for doing what they enjoy as long as it doesn’t cause harm - the same “social leniency” is simply not offered to women).
I know a lot of women who actually deeply appreciate soulsbornes and i dont like this “women arent hardcore” narrative.
Bloodborne, for easy example, has a deep maternal-horror throughline. Disconnecting the female experience from bloodborne leaves you with… British people?
My wife loved god of war 2016 (not a soulsborne, but you get it) and it helped her to fix a part of her relationship with her father. She also defeated the last valkyrie hitless on Give Me God of War.
Damsels in distress arent off the table, but dont be misogynistic about it. Fanservice can be done tastefully (and there are plenty of female gooners who appreciate the female form as well).
What women dont like, is being objectified or forced to look at their struggles as fetish content.
Male power fantasies are often hit or miss too. My wife loves doom but cant stand the call of duty campaigns.
Damsels in distress arent off the table, but dont be misogynistic about it.
Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom did this quite well - while one of your main objectives in both games is to find/save Zelda…
Spoiler
In one game she’s single-handedly holding back Ganon from destroying the world and in another she makes the ultimate sacrifice to become an eternal dragon whose power is essentially limitless.
Sorry, but you cannot honestly think that most women are into soulslikes when not even most men are into them. Idk about the other references you are making because I’m one of the vast majority of women who have no interest in soulslike. (Actually that’s not structly true, I despeately want to like them, but don’t, but I still have no clue what you are on about)
I never said women aren’t hardcore, we give birth and raise kids. That’s hardcore. We do whatever the fuck we want against society, that’s hardcore. We can like anything across a broad range, but it would be silly to think that most women give a fuck about being represented in wwe, for example. This is similar.
What I’ve been saying is that women are more into social games, overall as a statistic, because that is factually correct.
I didn’t say most, i said “a lot”. I also covered much of the second paragraph here so im not sure what the argument is. I agree that ~50% of the population is also capable of greatness, mainly because i also belong to it :3
Theres definitely a stigma against women in gaming spaces, but believing thats the fault of the games’ content is 1/8th of the story; the majority of it is just regular ol’ misogyny and systematically-instilled self-doubt.
Im not mad at you or trying to downplay your opinion, i just disagree with the notion that women are for some reason repelled from “difficult” games by the content itself, primarily soulsborne games, because they have intricate feminist views on occasion. I think its far more likely they are drawn to unpopular games because male audiences are absent, allowing a female space to flourish.
What they said is literally ‘less than 50% men like soulslikes, and less than 50% women like soulslikes’ which would be a statistical miracle to be an incorrect statement because it’s hard to make something to appeal to majority including those that never come close to PC or a console. Even if you only count gamers that would probably be hard to achieve, as that is not the same as positive reviews because reviewers are a subset of population that is already not against the genre
Well said! I think it’s a matter of identity too. My mom plays bejeweled and Farmville, and used to play SNES. She didn’t like 64, but played Myst and Riven and lots of PC games.
But if you ask her if she’s a gamer she’ll say no without hesitation.
I think “gamer” has been pretty tainted and is mostly used pejoratively nowadays. I play a lot of games but do not want to be associated with capital G Gamers and all the toxicity
Women do love games. The market share before the toy stores made it a choice of who to cater to were about even. Women made some of the best games early on, and the female gamer demographic never went away, it just got shoved to the side for fanservice.
There are plenty of games for women, and im not saying this dismissively. It depends what these women like. They just aren’t hardcore soulslikes. Most women arent into that. They prefer casual or social games they can fit onto their existing life, like candy crush or farmville.
I’m a woman gamer, most of my ladyfriends are gamers. I definitely play a different subset of games than most of them, but there’s no real lack…
We even have big franchise games that are aimed toward women like horizon. I fucking loved those games, and we need more like that! They made me better at shooters in general, a genre I have never been good at or spent time with due in part to how male-focused it was.
I think this is a symptom of how women are ostracised/marketed to in the gaming sphere rather than an actual predisposition. The split of women and men (and everyone in between) in my life who enjoy more action oriented games, vs cozy games, vs strategy games, vs etc, is pretty much even, but the women (and non women who were Arab) had a harder time getting to the point where they felt they were “allowed” to try the games that are typically heavily marketed toward men, and typically associated with men.
I can speak to it from the opposite side as well, having grown up assigned male, I spent a great deal of time feeling like I wasn’t allowed to play, or should feel shame for enjoying, cozy games, farming games, games with a more “typically feminine” aesthetic. And that shame came from other gamers, and from the wider conversation around games by media and marketing. But I do like cozy games and farming games! (And I’m a woman, but that discovery came later xP)
What I can agree with, which I think is slightly buried in the subtext of your comment, is that it’s far more socially accepted for a man to base his life around games. For (some) women who enjoy soulslikes, they might play for shorter times, or less frequently, as lapsing on other facets of life or responsibilities is more heavily frowned upon (by wider society) in women. But (many) men can happily spend 3, 4, 5, 8 hours a day playing video games without all that much judgement (which is fine! I don’t think people should be judged for doing what they enjoy as long as it doesn’t cause harm - the same “social leniency” is simply not offered to women).
what even is this take
People gave up reading halfway through his comment…
Obviously hehe
I know a lot of women who actually deeply appreciate soulsbornes and i dont like this “women arent hardcore” narrative.
Bloodborne, for easy example, has a deep maternal-horror throughline. Disconnecting the female experience from bloodborne leaves you with… British people?
My wife loved god of war 2016 (not a soulsborne, but you get it) and it helped her to fix a part of her relationship with her father. She also defeated the last valkyrie hitless on Give Me God of War.
Damsels in distress arent off the table, but dont be misogynistic about it. Fanservice can be done tastefully (and there are plenty of female gooners who appreciate the female form as well).
What women dont like, is being objectified or forced to look at their struggles as fetish content.
Male power fantasies are often hit or miss too. My wife loves doom but cant stand the call of duty campaigns.
Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom did this quite well - while one of your main objectives in both games is to find/save Zelda…
Spoiler
In one game she’s single-handedly holding back Ganon from destroying the world and in another she makes the ultimate sacrifice to become an eternal dragon whose power is essentially limitless.
Oh the horrors!
I guess a reference to celebrated tubby England striker Paul “Gazza” Gascoigne.
Sorry, but you cannot honestly think that most women are into soulslikes when not even most men are into them. Idk about the other references you are making because I’m one of the vast majority of women who have no interest in soulslike. (Actually that’s not structly true, I despeately want to like them, but don’t, but I still have no clue what you are on about)
I never said women aren’t hardcore, we give birth and raise kids. That’s hardcore. We do whatever the fuck we want against society, that’s hardcore. We can like anything across a broad range, but it would be silly to think that most women give a fuck about being represented in wwe, for example. This is similar.
What I’ve been saying is that women are more into social games, overall as a statistic, because that is factually correct.
I didn’t say most, i said “a lot”. I also covered much of the second paragraph here so im not sure what the argument is. I agree that ~50% of the population is also capable of greatness, mainly because i also belong to it :3
Theres definitely a stigma against women in gaming spaces, but believing thats the fault of the games’ content is 1/8th of the story; the majority of it is just regular ol’ misogyny and systematically-instilled self-doubt.
Im not mad at you or trying to downplay your opinion, i just disagree with the notion that women are for some reason repelled from “difficult” games by the content itself, primarily soulsborne games, because they have intricate feminist views on occasion. I think its far more likely they are drawn to unpopular games because male audiences are absent, allowing a female space to flourish.
Which I never said and in fact have disgreed with, so that’s probably why.
If you don’t make up my position, you might get it :)
What you just said amounts to ‘nobody likes soulslikes’ which is just fucking insane, soulslikes are obviously popular.
What they said is literally ‘less than 50% men like soulslikes, and less than 50% women like soulslikes’ which would be a statistical miracle to be an incorrect statement because it’s hard to make something to appeal to majority including those that never come close to PC or a console. Even if you only count gamers that would probably be hard to achieve, as that is not the same as positive reviews because reviewers are a subset of population that is already not against the genre
What they said is true, its not a jab at the genre.
Well said! I think it’s a matter of identity too. My mom plays bejeweled and Farmville, and used to play SNES. She didn’t like 64, but played Myst and Riven and lots of PC games.
But if you ask her if she’s a gamer she’ll say no without hesitation.
I think “gamer” has been pretty tainted and is mostly used pejoratively nowadays. I play a lot of games but do not want to be associated with capital G Gamers and all the toxicity
A woman I work with only plays one game: Call of Duty.
Cool, I’m glad she’s into it.
Why is this being treated a a refutation to my personal opinion?
It isn’t.
Then why does it matter?
It was another example about the variety of games that women play, intended to be positive but you seem to think it was somehow negative.
Sorry for agreeing with your point that women have made and played a wide variety of games.