cross-posted from: https://lemmy.today/post/63107763
I’m looking for something like Snikket or Prosody, but kids-oriented. I DON’T want my <10 daughter using Meta Messenger Kids! I’ll tell my friends to setup for their kids, too. I’d have no access to anything, so it’s secure (mom and dad not snooping per se), but the downside is minimal parental controls. Though, no one to really add either.
I’ll host or pay for it, IDC. It doesn’t seem like there is much out there either.
JusTalk seemed nice when I found out but apparently China owned and so no more secure. I/we need better options!
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@unitedwithme These kinds of thoughts are good ones. I wish I was more skilled in software development to build solutions for the younger ones in my family.
As a Business Analyst I would ask - What kind of feature would you look for in a messaging app for young people I care about. I guess for me it would include things like:
Ability to:
Control who the can communicate with
See the communications they send and receive
Limit their ability to add new people (or have an approval step that involved me or their parents )I’m guessing that once you have an idea of the requirements - appropriate clients could be built on any of the technologies we have like XMPP or Matrix.
As an alternative, around here, home phones (through voip) are making a comeback for kids.
Secure comms, no log, no photos, teaches a bit of etiquette.
Compatibility between self hosted and commercial systems.
I would go with Deltachat. There is no public directory of anything, so it’s impossible to know who is/isn’t there or randomly contact anyone. The only ways to start a conversation/follow someone are:
- scan qr codes, so you need physical presence and it’s easy to see when there is no consent
- clicking on a random link
It i safe to tell your kids to not click on random links, so it’s the safest way for kids to not randomly come into contact of people
Ok, but getting other parents on board so my kid can talk to theirs seems near impossible as they’re non-technical.
There’s nothing technical about it though. Snikket/xmpp or matrix will require more technical steps for you as a hoster and for other kids to create accounts and add each other in groups
DeltaChat is the less technical solution out there. People don’t even need to setup a password. Install the app, scan the QR of a contact (can be from a picture sent through another channel), start talking.
TIL Meta Messenger Kids exists. Yikes.
It’s worse than you think.
When I first looked t you couldn’t use it in the EU because it didn’t meet child protection laws.
Just building shadow profiles until they hit 13 to syphon the fuck out of everyone’s data!
I found out any pictures you upload to FB of your kids, each get their own profile, frequency they appear on your orioles, etc. They build massive profiles around these kids just to tie it all together later!
Source for this? I’m trying to convince grandparents to stop posting pics. It’s… Frustrating.
I’m not in the situation yet, but once i have kids I’ll tell my parents that, if i ever see a picture of my kids in any of those bs platforms (fb, Whatsapp…) they’ll never get another picture. parents have the ultimate decision about such things, if somebody else doesn’t respect your decision, they need to live with the consequences.
it might sound harsh, but seems to be the only really working strategy. i gave up explaining them stuff over a decade ago.
3 of the 4 are great about it, the 4th, while being careful (almost paranoid) about privacy, lives on Facebook and doesn’t get it, no matter what I’ve tried. We haven’t sent pictures in a long while.
Yes I have a couple sources. I hate to link a YT video, so I’ll use invidious. Both are great informative videos, but I don’t want to take up your time.
However, check this link first because it might be speculation without hard evidence, while other evidence points to them doing this exact thing but for adults or people 13+ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20167085
Its at the very end at 10 minutes https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=Yv2Eb_kJous
Also here at 12:25 mark on the video https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=9wknq-Ra-KU
Not just for kids. They let politicians and billionaires on there, too!
… /s … oh GOD I hope /s
I dont have a good suggestion, but you may unintentionally be about to give your daughter a brutal lesson in network effects. If all her friends end up using something else, she will be isolated.
You’re not wrong.
One upside - the kids will learn this, and also the value of separate communication channels.
I’d I could get my family to switch to anything other than SMS I’d be happy.
isn’t sms better than being forced instagram dm or smth tho…?
Will 10yo’s actually value separate channels? Or will OP’s daughter just end up being the “other weird kid on the weird app we dont like”. I know nothing about 10yo’s though, maybe I am wrong.
the better question is, will 10 year old even use the separate channel, or are they just going to set up a fake/hidden account like every other child out there when given a restriction.
I kind of meant as they go. At some point it’ll make sense to them.
Setup a private matrix instance
Mayrix is awfully rough around the edges
I would love to see the success rate of getting the parents of the child’s friend to set up a matrix client for their child’s one friend that doesn’t use anything they do.
Help your child embrace not needing to be constantly in communication with her friends, to (gasp) use the phone … or accept and monitor the evil empires’ offerings but no matter what you do, don’t for one second think you’ll get a single family to set up a matrix client for “that one kid”.
Second this. My friend group has been using my Matrix server for years.
How would you compare setting up your own Matrix server vs an XMPP server?
I was going to recommend XMPP to OP, and I don’t have any experience with setting up Matrix.
Selfhosting both. Continuwuity is more straightforward to set up than ejabberd, mostly because of easier docs, less ports, and less subdomains required. It also comes with most things you need rather than a bunch of toggled-on modules, and I’d say Matrix being HTTP makes it more “conventional” for beginners.
XMPP is significantly more lightweight though, being a message passing protocol rather than state syncing.
AFAIK, xmpp is easier to maintain and requires less resources.
I have no skin in either game, so I couldn’t give you an honest answer here. I only suggested matrix because I believe it would fit the scenario
Bummer.
Oh well
Anyone ever use FluffyChat? That seems based on Matrix and cute like it’d be kid friendly. I’ll look more into matrix in general! TY
I use Fluffychat, it’s a nice app
Hell even the default one is better than everything else out there besides signal and xmpp. Don’t necessarily gotta host your own
snikket! you can host it yourself or let jmp run it for you!
been using it for years after matrix was heavy and hard to maintain
snikket is a docker!
Snikket is XMPP under the hood right?
Yes! I run Snikket already for my phone app! Cam you run side by side instances? I’ve never really tried. I’ll have to look at how to run a domain that way.
Anyway, I’m trying Matrix (FluffyChat) but being new to Matrix, not sure how to point to my own subdomain for the app to connect.
For Matrix, what server software are you hosting and what’s your subdomain setup? When logging in, you just enter the domain behind your username (e.g. use
example.comif your username is@user:example.com)Edit: not sure if Snikket supports multiple domains, but its upstream, the Prosody server, does that just fine
