They could enshittify dramatically tomorrow, and I think they would still have positive sentiment.
Baseless assumption on your part. Nobody is blindly trusting Valve and excusing their faults.
And Steam is the only storefront for so, so many games. For all of Sweeny’s toxicity, I honestly didn’t feel that particular outrage against EGS, as I was already concerned by how many games are Steam-only.
Steam doesn’t force retail exclusivity. That’s on publishers for not putting it on other storefronts, but also most games can be found for sale on other stores.
Steam doesn’t force retail exclusivity. That’s on publishers for not putting it on other storefronts, but also most games can be found for sale on other stores.
Technically not true, the reason Steam was so hated in the beginning was that even if you bought HL2 from a physical store, you STILL had to activate it on Steam to play it.
They just don’t do exclusives now because there’s no reason to anymore.
Not for the games I play. My order of operations for buying most games is:
#1: GoG, so it’s DRM free
#2: The lowest fee storefront to support the dev (so 1st party store, or maybe EGS).
#3: Steam, the default. This is prioritized if it’s a Workshop-exclusive game or something.
#4: Some junky storefront like Xbox
But in recent years, basically all the games I want have been Steam only, or “Steam locked” because I am otherwise locked out of the Workshop, multiplayer, or something.
Like how Amazon doesn’t force retail exclusivity, either. They simply dictate prices of other stores.
…One could just not list on Amazon and go out of business. Or list, and have the vast majority of sales go through Amazon since pricing has to be exactly the same anyway. It’s technically a choice, but it’s effectively no choice for many types of products.
Steam is largely the same thing. They are a “soft monopoly” now, they technically don’t enforce exclusivity, but it’s often not a choice for game makers.
Hence basically every indie/AA game I’ve bought recently has been on Steam, in spite of me actively avoiding Steam if I can.
Amazon’s situation is that they drove prices up artificially through browbeating vendors by leveraging their considerable power. Items that used to be $10 are now $50. Unless you’re suggesting Steam is really what are forcing AAA games to go up to $80, it’s not the same situation as Amazon.
Steam is a textbook example of a natural monopoly. It seems like people have forgotten about this concept. Exclusivity is always a choice for publishers. They do not ever have to only be on Steam, and most games aren’t. It’s also their choice to rely entirely on Steamworks instead of using alternative technologies.
You could always choose to buy many of those indie games on GOG, Itch, or on other stores.
You mean the current enshitification due to AI isn’t happening on Steam… Baseless!? Please
Steam doesn’t force retail exclusivity.
They don’t have to, they control the market. They are definitely guilty of price fixing though preventing other storefronts from offering better prices.
You mean the current enshitification due to AI isn’t happening on Steam… Baseless!? Please
How do you read someone talking about how people in the comment section are so enamoured with Steam that they will ignore if they become way worse overnight, and somehow think they’re talking about this other matter entirely?
They don’t have to, they control the market.
They didn’t even when there wasn’t a market to control.
They are definitely guilty of price fixing though preventing other storefronts from offering better prices.
False. Minimum pricing is a pretty common retail policy and Steam’s specifically only applies to where ever Steam keys are distributed.
They control over 70% of the Market which is considered a monopoly even in the more stringent federal courts.
False.
Oh God another Steam key propagandist. The Steam Key thing was debunked years ago and not what anyone is currently talking about. Steam is on record in court lying on the stand about this. If it is “industry standard” why lie? Simply put, they know they engage in price fixing and parity to control the market.
Considering you came in here arguing about something nobody said, I don’t think you have the best idea of what other people are saying.
They control over 70% of the Market which is considered a monopoly even in the more stringent federal courts.
What is this disagreeing with in my comment?
The Steam Key thing was debunked years ago and not what anyone is currently talking about. Steam is on record in court lying on the stand about this
Okay, show where.
It is clear you have not studied this.
It’s an opinion article about the complaint written from arms length, and it covers both the arguments for and against from that disconnected perspective.
Considering you came in here arguing about something nobody said
I made a statement that you have not been able to refute.
What is this disagreeing with in my comment?
It is a statement of fact
Okay, show where.
Show that you are using some old pro steam propaganda that is unrelated to what is going now? Hard pass.
It’s an opinion article
Everything is pretty much an opinion. I will pick the side of lawyer’s opinions based on evidence and facts. As I said, you have not studied this. You have not read the testimony.
I made a statement that you have not been able to refute.
Because I don’t have any reason to refute the notion of AI games being invasive. I’m not here baselessly defending Steam. And it is still not what anyone was talking about.
It is a statement of fact
Without point or purpose?
Show that you are using some old pro steam propaganda that is unrelated to what is going now? Hard pass.
No, show those records you say exist. It doesn’t matter what I’m operating from.
Everything is pretty much an opinion. I will pick the side of lawyer’s opinions based on evidence and facts. As I said, you have not studied this. You have not read the testimony.
You don’t seem aware about half of what that opinion piece says. It’s not even factually rich, it’s pretty high level consideration of the complaint. There’s no testimony here, or mention of one. I’ve studied it more than you have it seems.
Because I don’t have any reason to refute the notion of AI games being invasive. I’m not here baselessly defending Steam. And it is still not what anyone was talking about.
You claimed there was no enshitification. This is not true. Steam is wrestling right now with their permissive system. While I truly do like that anyone can put their games on the platform they are facing a deluge of low quality AI games that threatens to choke out Indy developers.
Without point or purpose?
If you are being obtuse here I understand, if not then I am actually worried you might be incapable of connecting the dots. Steam is a monopoly that has already enshitified the market. The reason that there is not more competition is because of their practices.
No, show those records you say exist. It doesn’t matter what I’m operating from.
Show the record that Steam Keys is an old talking point that is not applicable to what I am saying. You need to think a little harder here.
You don’t seem aware about half of what that opinion piece says. It’s not even factually
Please, you have not studied this at all. If you are interested you can look it up and read the testimony like I already have. I was once on Steams side and I have thousands of Steam games. I read the evidence and it is clear they have damaged the market.
How did you get this from telling someone nobody is ignoring Steam’s issues as much as that person said they were? Even my last comment says the opposite of “there is no enshittification”.
If you are being obtuse here I understand, if not then I am actually worried you might be incapable of connecting the dots. Steam is a monopoly that has already enshitified the market. The reason that there is not more competition is because of their practices.
I was asking you to connect the dots because this isn’t related to anything I said. It’s unclear why you felt the need to bring this up since it’s not in dispute.
Show the record that Steam Keys is an old talking point that is not applicable to what I am saying. You need to think a little harder here.
Asking for those records you said exist is not relevant to you saying it’s all on record? Seems like you’re hoping I think about this less, not more. It’s starting to seem like you lied about this.
Please, you have not studied this at all.
This accusation would hold more water if you actually argued about what it says instead of Gish galloping elsewhere. Again, that article says more than you seem to realize.
Baseless assumption on your part. Nobody is blindly trusting Valve and excusing their faults.
Steam doesn’t force retail exclusivity. That’s on publishers for not putting it on other storefronts, but also most games can be found for sale on other stores.
Technically not true, the reason Steam was so hated in the beginning was that even if you bought HL2 from a physical store, you STILL had to activate it on Steam to play it.
They just don’t do exclusives now because there’s no reason to anymore.
That’s not what retail exclusivity is.
Not for the games I play. My order of operations for buying most games is:
#1: GoG, so it’s DRM free
#2: The lowest fee storefront to support the dev (so 1st party store, or maybe EGS).
#3: Steam, the default. This is prioritized if it’s a Workshop-exclusive game or something.
#4: Some junky storefront like Xbox
But in recent years, basically all the games I want have been Steam only, or “Steam locked” because I am otherwise locked out of the Workshop, multiplayer, or something.
That’s still not Steam forcing retail exclusivity.
Like how Amazon doesn’t force retail exclusivity, either. They simply dictate prices of other stores.
…One could just not list on Amazon and go out of business. Or list, and have the vast majority of sales go through Amazon since pricing has to be exactly the same anyway. It’s technically a choice, but it’s effectively no choice for many types of products.
Steam is largely the same thing. They are a “soft monopoly” now, they technically don’t enforce exclusivity, but it’s often not a choice for game makers.
Hence basically every indie/AA game I’ve bought recently has been on Steam, in spite of me actively avoiding Steam if I can.
Amazon’s situation is that they drove prices up artificially through browbeating vendors by leveraging their considerable power. Items that used to be $10 are now $50. Unless you’re suggesting Steam is really what are forcing AAA games to go up to $80, it’s not the same situation as Amazon.
Steam is a textbook example of a natural monopoly. It seems like people have forgotten about this concept. Exclusivity is always a choice for publishers. They do not ever have to only be on Steam, and most games aren’t. It’s also their choice to rely entirely on Steamworks instead of using alternative technologies.
You could always choose to buy many of those indie games on GOG, Itch, or on other stores.
You mean the current enshitification due to AI isn’t happening on Steam… Baseless!? Please
They don’t have to, they control the market. They are definitely guilty of price fixing though preventing other storefronts from offering better prices.
How do you read someone talking about how people in the comment section are so enamoured with Steam that they will ignore if they become way worse overnight, and somehow think they’re talking about this other matter entirely?
They didn’t even when there wasn’t a market to control.
False. Minimum pricing is a pretty common retail policy and Steam’s specifically only applies to where ever Steam keys are distributed.
Baselessly defending Steam I see.
They control over 70% of the Market which is considered a monopoly even in the more stringent federal courts.
Oh God another Steam key propagandist. The Steam Key thing was debunked years ago and not what anyone is currently talking about. Steam is on record in court lying on the stand about this. If it is “industry standard” why lie? Simply put, they know they engage in price fixing and parity to control the market.
It is clear you have not studied this.
https://www.rainintelligence.com/blog/price-parity-mfn-clause-antitrust
Considering you came in here arguing about something nobody said, I don’t think you have the best idea of what other people are saying.
What is this disagreeing with in my comment?
Okay, show where.
It’s an opinion article about the complaint written from arms length, and it covers both the arguments for and against from that disconnected perspective.
I made a statement that you have not been able to refute.
It is a statement of fact
Show that you are using some old pro steam propaganda that is unrelated to what is going now? Hard pass.
Everything is pretty much an opinion. I will pick the side of lawyer’s opinions based on evidence and facts. As I said, you have not studied this. You have not read the testimony.
Because I don’t have any reason to refute the notion of AI games being invasive. I’m not here baselessly defending Steam. And it is still not what anyone was talking about.
Without point or purpose?
No, show those records you say exist. It doesn’t matter what I’m operating from.
You don’t seem aware about half of what that opinion piece says. It’s not even factually rich, it’s pretty high level consideration of the complaint. There’s no testimony here, or mention of one. I’ve studied it more than you have it seems.
You claimed there was no enshitification. This is not true. Steam is wrestling right now with their permissive system. While I truly do like that anyone can put their games on the platform they are facing a deluge of low quality AI games that threatens to choke out Indy developers.
If you are being obtuse here I understand, if not then I am actually worried you might be incapable of connecting the dots. Steam is a monopoly that has already enshitified the market. The reason that there is not more competition is because of their practices.
Show the record that Steam Keys is an old talking point that is not applicable to what I am saying. You need to think a little harder here.
Please, you have not studied this at all. If you are interested you can look it up and read the testimony like I already have. I was once on Steams side and I have thousands of Steam games. I read the evidence and it is clear they have damaged the market.
How did you get this from telling someone nobody is ignoring Steam’s issues as much as that person said they were? Even my last comment says the opposite of “there is no enshittification”.
I was asking you to connect the dots because this isn’t related to anything I said. It’s unclear why you felt the need to bring this up since it’s not in dispute.
Asking for those records you said exist is not relevant to you saying it’s all on record? Seems like you’re hoping I think about this less, not more. It’s starting to seem like you lied about this.
This accusation would hold more water if you actually argued about what it says instead of Gish galloping elsewhere. Again, that article says more than you seem to realize.