The demo’s promising, but the game is a weak entrant into the survival/exploration space at present imo.
Years ago, Valheim entered the genre and basically set the bar – and as far as I’ve seen few others have come close since to mimicking the same immersion/feeling as it managed. It should be so stupidly easy for a game dev to play valheim / look at valheim mods, and say “ok, that’s the floor we need to meet in terms of mechs and whatnot, and we gotta move forward from there!”.
Easy example: Windrose is often billed/marketed as an exploration game. And they did proc gen maps, which is great for exploration mechs as it keeps the terrain ‘new’ and prevents easy google-scumming to circumvent ‘exploration’ gameplay. If you look at valheim on this front, you’ll note that a lot of players play without the map even, as it’s more immersive for exploration to have to make your own landmarks / navigation methods (one of the most popular mods makes it so the minimap is only ‘visible’ when you go to your base/a specific buildable station).
Instead of going that route and leaning in to the sorts of things that the literal fanbase of this genre has been modding in to games of this sort for YEARs, Windrose provides you with the minimap, and marks every POI nearby for you to ensure you don’t just randomly stumble across new things – I mean, who’d want that sense of discovery/exploration in an exploration game anyhow, right? Their markers even have a counter for how many ‘chests’ are available at the POI, and how many you’ve found, so that you can be sure to fully complete the location. It’s stupid.
Still, it looks fairly good, base mechs for combat are ok. So I’m leaving it on my wishlist for now, but if it doesn’t change a bunch before EA/release, it’ll likely sputter and poof.
Psh, Valheim’s what started the resurgence of indie survival crafting games. Not giving it it’s due is naive.
Like one of the few contenders still with some players is Enshrouded. Enshrouded’s steamchart 24 hour peak was 18k, with a 30 day avg of ~16k.
Valheim had a 24 hour peak of 30k, and a 30 day avg of ~23k.
Valheim came out in 2021. Enshrouded in 2024.
A game 3 years older, is still dominating the space. Even just based on those numbers, it’s pretty clear which one is the gold standard in the space – taking your opinion out of it, and my opinion out of it, the data that devs should be looking at is clear if they want the game to appeal to more players.
idc about the popularity data, if every artist only sought to replicate what’s the most popular thing around we’d enter an age of total homogeny
you have what you like, i don’t like what you like, i have what i like. multiple things that some people like, and some dislike, can exist at the same time, and that is good
Yes, sure, ok whatever. Art is a generally iterative process that builds on prior attempts, historically. Even Shakespeare’s plays ripped off themes from similar contemporary works. Your claim that we’d be left with a homogenous list of games is completely unfounded.
ID software put out the earliest “big” FPS games, and many FPS games since have ripped off ideas that were used by ID. Hell, the idea of Grappling hooks in Quake/FPS came primarily from the popularity of a Quake Mod called 3wave CTF that brought those things in. “Dur dur, they shouldn’t have made any other FPS games using those same popular elements, cause homogeny!!”.
I’ve said what I wanted to say about the game, and supported it with some data that outlines how popular features are ‘outside of just my own opinion’. I’m gonna stop bothering to discuss this with you at this point, as I really don’t see any reason to do so given your stance. If they leave everything as is, and you get your quirky game with bland features for exploration etc, and it sputters and dies, I hope you think back to this exchange.
i never said anything about not taking inspiration from other sources or re-using ideas. provided with what i said that’d be the most extreme assumption possible, why would you jump to the conclusion that i hold an opinion like that?
but you did say that people should start making their survival crafting games by using the most popular thing around (valheim) as the base and going from there (instead of, for example, looking at valheim and analysing what you enjoyed or didn’t enjoy about it, and using that research to help you make something better)
& i won’t stop liking games that i enjoy because they aren’t similar to a game that i don’t enjoy what T–T
if that pirate survival craft succeeds it won’t be because it was like valheim, and if it fails it won’t be because it wasn’t like it either. it will either succeed or fail for what it itself tries to be, and clearly it’s taking inspiration from different sources than valheim
The demo’s promising, but the game is a weak entrant into the survival/exploration space at present imo.
Years ago, Valheim entered the genre and basically set the bar – and as far as I’ve seen few others have come close since to mimicking the same immersion/feeling as it managed. It should be so stupidly easy for a game dev to play valheim / look at valheim mods, and say “ok, that’s the floor we need to meet in terms of mechs and whatnot, and we gotta move forward from there!”.
Easy example: Windrose is often billed/marketed as an exploration game. And they did proc gen maps, which is great for exploration mechs as it keeps the terrain ‘new’ and prevents easy google-scumming to circumvent ‘exploration’ gameplay. If you look at valheim on this front, you’ll note that a lot of players play without the map even, as it’s more immersive for exploration to have to make your own landmarks / navigation methods (one of the most popular mods makes it so the minimap is only ‘visible’ when you go to your base/a specific buildable station).
Instead of going that route and leaning in to the sorts of things that the literal fanbase of this genre has been modding in to games of this sort for YEARs, Windrose provides you with the minimap, and marks every POI nearby for you to ensure you don’t just randomly stumble across new things – I mean, who’d want that sense of discovery/exploration in an exploration game anyhow, right? Their markers even have a counter for how many ‘chests’ are available at the POI, and how many you’ve found, so that you can be sure to fully complete the location. It’s stupid.
Still, it looks fairly good, base mechs for combat are ok. So I’m leaving it on my wishlist for now, but if it doesn’t change a bunch before EA/release, it’ll likely sputter and poof.
ew no please, i dislike Valheim and i do not want it at the base of all survival craft games
you’re free to enjoy what you enjoy, but don’t make sweeping statements about how a whole genre should look at one specific game for inspiration
Psh, Valheim’s what started the resurgence of indie survival crafting games. Not giving it it’s due is naive.
Like one of the few contenders still with some players is Enshrouded. Enshrouded’s steamchart 24 hour peak was 18k, with a 30 day avg of ~16k.
Valheim had a 24 hour peak of 30k, and a 30 day avg of ~23k.
Valheim came out in 2021. Enshrouded in 2024.
A game 3 years older, is still dominating the space. Even just based on those numbers, it’s pretty clear which one is the gold standard in the space – taking your opinion out of it, and my opinion out of it, the data that devs should be looking at is clear if they want the game to appeal to more players.
idc about the popularity data, if every artist only sought to replicate what’s the most popular thing around we’d enter an age of total homogeny
you have what you like, i don’t like what you like, i have what i like. multiple things that some people like, and some dislike, can exist at the same time, and that is good
Yes, sure, ok whatever. Art is a generally iterative process that builds on prior attempts, historically. Even Shakespeare’s plays ripped off themes from similar contemporary works. Your claim that we’d be left with a homogenous list of games is completely unfounded.
ID software put out the earliest “big” FPS games, and many FPS games since have ripped off ideas that were used by ID. Hell, the idea of Grappling hooks in Quake/FPS came primarily from the popularity of a Quake Mod called 3wave CTF that brought those things in. “Dur dur, they shouldn’t have made any other FPS games using those same popular elements, cause homogeny!!”.
I’ve said what I wanted to say about the game, and supported it with some data that outlines how popular features are ‘outside of just my own opinion’. I’m gonna stop bothering to discuss this with you at this point, as I really don’t see any reason to do so given your stance. If they leave everything as is, and you get your quirky game with bland features for exploration etc, and it sputters and dies, I hope you think back to this exchange.
i never said anything about not taking inspiration from other sources or re-using ideas. provided with what i said that’d be the most extreme assumption possible, why would you jump to the conclusion that i hold an opinion like that?
but you did say that people should start making their survival crafting games by using the most popular thing around (valheim) as the base and going from there (instead of, for example, looking at valheim and analysing what you enjoyed or didn’t enjoy about it, and using that research to help you make something better)
& i won’t stop liking games that i enjoy because they aren’t similar to a game that i don’t enjoy what T–T
if that pirate survival craft succeeds it won’t be because it was like valheim, and if it fails it won’t be because it wasn’t like it either. it will either succeed or fail for what it itself tries to be, and clearly it’s taking inspiration from different sources than valheim