cross-posted from: https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/48813307
!!! IF YOU ARE AN EU CITIZEN, PLEASE DO THE FOLLOWING FORM !!!
https://fightchatcontrol.eu/#contact-tool
Be especially sure to select your home country’s permanent representation in the Committee, but selecting everyone the website proposes is a very good idea (and done by default).
Raise your voices and flood their inbox, this might be the last chance we ever get
Why is this specifically relevant to Linux users?
Well,
- controlling end-to-end encrypted messages is only possible if either the keys/certificates are not secret (which is possible with TLS), or the software on the end-users device is not controlled any more by the user (but perhaps by law enforcement, or companies). This overturns the basis of any FLOSS software system where trust is based on transparency and user control.
- age verification will typically done by a form of attestation, a highly problematic concept. Again, this would require to run software on the users device which can’t be controlled by him or her, which is deceptively called “trusted computing”. (Technically, age verification could be done by other means, but this is not what these proposals aim for).
- in the world of public-key cryptography, which is what TLS , GnuPG, and most other modern systems are based in, encryption and digital signatures are nothing but two sides of the same coin: Who breaks encryption keys necessarily also breaks signature keys. This means it is not possible any more to sign software such as the Linux kernel, or Email clients, or browser packages. Or even banking apps or bootloaders for smart phones. Which means to give control away to the entities, groups or induviduals controlling these keys. Ironically, this will make computing lot less safe, and also undermine trust in communication networks, because communication where we can’t be sure that the communicated symbols are genuine is for humans as worthless as the numbers on fake money. (As a corollary, it is also bad for business: All business is based on some amount of trust. Would you do important business with somebody if the only communication channel you have happens to be a messanger which is a compulsory liar?)
To sum up, this is a massive transfer of control.
These politicians really aren’t afraid of those they were elected to represent…
For their sake I hope they stop this FAFO, before more damage is done.@HaraldvonBlauzahn This is the most clear and concise technical summary detailing the dangers of EU Chat Control so far. Thank you.
I don’t get it. If an email was encrypted with PGP between a friend and myself, how would anyone else without the private keys be able to decrypt it?
They can’t, but that is not the purpose. If the chat control passes then all big services will be forced to leave EU or build in a backdoor. That will give them control over more than 90 % of the population and satisfies their goal. You and your friends are a rounding error. And if you would perform a crime, or are suspected of one, they can use the fact that you encrypt your messages against you.
Still can’t fucking believe Denmark, my country, supports this. Yeah, it got revised thanks to Denmark, but it shouldn’t be revised, it should be killed.
Removed by mod
Find me a white bus driver in Copenhagen, I’ll wait.
Want me to start counting? I could start with the 8 bus drivers I went to kursus with at Langsøhus.
Denmark is one of the fascist cores of the EU and sells its influence to the US in exchange for preferential treatment.
Yes, that’s why we were so glad to give away Greenland to the US. Oh wait…
Silkeborg == Copenhagen
It’s a 3F kursus centre. Nobody who went there came from Silkeborg. We were mostly from København and Aarhus.
And we still didn’t sell Greenland to the Americans.
Crazy that this got censored.
Denmark not only supports it, it’s the one country that pushes the hardest for it, and did from the start. Which seems weird from my German perspective, because I wouldn’t exactly associate Denmark with a police-state, quite the opposite actually, especially compared to Germany.
the europeans on lemmy continue to insist that americans are ahead of the fascism game; but we still don’t have chat control and have only elected one fascist so far. lol
While we have problems here in Europe and they’re concerning, the US really has this shit on a whole 'nother level. The NSA more or less has ALL the data that enters or exits the country and probably most of what goes around public networks (so just about any ISP) within the country. Your Lemmy instance is hosted in France and from your comment I infer that you’re American (so likely situated in the US), so most likely the communication between you and the instance is all recorded and stored at 33 Thomas Street. They’re just storing everything so they can decrypt it if quantum computing breaks existing algorithms. Then there’s all the tooling the CIA and NSA have built to spy on everyone who has any even somewhat insecure smart device.
Denmark is trying to legislate all this into happening, the US just ignores legislation when something actually disagrees with their spying
it’s not that they’re ignoring it; is that the legistlation doesn’t address buying it from non-government agencies and probably on purpose.
Barring civilians from using encryption and software deemed dangerous is a new level imo. These are the tools we have to fight this stuff, maintaining those rights is a big deal.
Oh I agree. If encryption becomes illegal I may actually move to another freaking continent. I have nothing to hide, but I am still not willing to compromise on privacy and security.
I think electing him twice should count for something.
At much harder the second time.
Every single swing county supposedly went the same way, there’s a county in New York where Harris supposedly had zero votes- despite locals claiming they did.
Alot of sus
that’s fair. lol
Only one? Do all if the bootlickers in the house and the senate, as well as JD vance not count?
Mate, USA is way ahead in fascism. EU isn’t openly disappear / deporting people yet. EU has healthcare, mostly.
try saying that you support palestine action publicly in the uk. lol
You know the UK isn’t in the EU anymore right?
yes and that’s why i said europe and not the eu
Pretty sure fascist already broke off the UK. While I will agree the US is ahead, it is everywhere already.
This is a worldwide problem unfortunately.
This is the moment when “Socialism or Barbarity” is decided. We can either organize, and throw off the chains of capitalism, or we can succumb to the fascist order that the owning class wants.
but we still don’t have chat control
Who needs chat control when you have the Patriot Act and PRISM?
Name one world leader except Trump that can make the stock market crash by speaking… :)
We dont have any big leaders in Europe that most people know by name even.
Its all talk about Trump, Musk, Zuckerberg over here too. Like mini America. There is nobody here who is saying anything people care about. We dont even know their names.
We dont even know their names.
that’s surprising to learn since the likes of farage, le pen have & hocke heavily influencing politics in the uk, france & germinay and meloni winning her election in italy.
You absolutely are ahead of the fascist game, so far ahead that your billionaires are funding European fascists and emboldening them.
our billionaires are also funding the protests again them; one of the walmart heirs is entire responsible for the noking protests.
the way things are going Europeans are gonna have to start fleeing to China to get a semblance of free speech 🤣
Lol what a crock
euronazis
Will this actually happen with 9 member states opposing? I thought they need every memeber state to support it?
All that means it’s that it won’t become EU-wide, could still become applied in those “Yes” voters off their own initiatives
Ok, the website says that Germany already opposes it. Is that outdated or what? I don’t want to spam MEPs if they already agree with me.
Back in the Merkel-era if Germany opposes it was over.
Spam them regardless. You want them to stay where they are and to argue firmly. Especially coming from Germany when talking about the evil of the surveillance state.
they won’t stop until they are deposed.
Just sent it, thanks for the reminder. Sent it before too an one representative actually responded which was nice.
I’m tired, boss.
I feel you
On your feet, comrade. This is no place to die.
So am I, but they are not.
Just a question from my ignorance: but is this really enforceable, outside of mainstream apps/services? What happens if someone creates a custom app relying on a custom sever and uses it only among few trusted people?
For the moment, that would not be enforceable in respect to people with technical knowledge. Enforcing it would require authoritarian control and even China’s Great Firewall has way to circumvent it.
On the other hand, this is already far more difficult than you might think. You could not install such an app from a server authenticated with TLS because the TLS keys might be subverted - the certification chain has national institutions as the top certificate authorities. You would also not be able to install such an app on an Android phone because Google has decided it needs developer attestation to install apps in a way accesible to end users. You can run Linux now but if all that is taken seriously, your options to run Linux might become limited. E.g. you already can’t run many banking apps on phones with user-controlled OS software. Railway apps like the German one already don’t work. In future, you might not even be able to use a municipial library’s or bookstore’s website this way.
But more to the point, the real application case for this kind of civil rights is not some nerd kids which want to play DnD or minecraft on their own server or test their self-written IRC service. The real application case is what we see in the US, people being dragged out of their house and disappearing just because of their ancestry, how they look, being poor or the area they live in. They don’t have time to compile software or configure port-knocking protocols.
Somebody has called these systems of “democratic” mass surveillance uncovered by Snowden “Turnkey Dictatorship” . I for sure wish they would have been wrong.
Well… I assume that might be illegal. Or maybe these rules would only apply to public software? For sure it wouldn’t be enforceable, and it would still allow criminals to use it to communicate privately between each other, but it would make it harder to exploit mainstream public apps (e.g.: WhatsApp) to scam or exploit weaker individuals.
mainstream
is the keyword here. Mainstream is really big.
They come for the lions share first. You do nothing because you think you’re unaffected. Then later they will come for you. And nobody will do anything for you either.
Of course, professional criminals like yourself (sarcasm) will find a way to escape the law. But I doubt it’s nice to live on the edge of society like that anyway, being unable to interact with most services.
Able, but no reason to.
Yeah, criminals are smarter than politicians anyway. And far more knowledge, with respect to technology.
Just an example: Of course you can use a private email service. You don’t need to give a copy of all your communications to Google Mail or outlook. Or medical data.
But what helps that, if 97% of the people you communicate with (including your doctor) use outlook or gmail, and all messages you write them are kindly stored there “for them”?
Un-fucking-believable 😡
Who do we need to kill?
Everybody. Fucking everybody.
#GuillotineParty
if i’m not an eu citizen, what can i do to help
srsly considering to vote for a party against the eu next election.
whats the point if it is just oppression. Conservatives ruining the world.
Are there any left eu-skeptic parties?
most of them, I think
Such as?
Sinn Féin in Ireland, O Bloco and PCP in Portugal, PTB-PVDA in Belgium
sry i am not aware of any, or atleast any pary i have been intrested in till now was anti-eu
but conaidering i am very left and am having these thoughts, i would hope that if this really gets approved, that either my local party changes their stance / atleast advocates for strong eu reforms Or that a smaller new one changes its stance
ofc voting right wing is not an option
